WASHINGTON — Most of the arms shipped at the behest of Saudi Arabia and Qatar to supply Syrian rebel groups fighting the government of Bashar al-Assad are going to hard-line Islamic jihadists, and not the more secular opposition groups that the West wants to bolster, according to American officials and Middle Eastern diplomats.
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That conclusion, of which President Obama and other senior officials are aware from classified assessments of the Syrian conflict that has now claimed more than 25,000 lives, casts into doubt whether the White House’s strategy of minimal and indirect intervention in the Syrian conflict is accomplishing its intended purpose of helping a democratic-minded opposition topple an oppressive government, or is instead sowing the seeds of future insurgencies hostile to the United States.
“The opposition groups that are receiving the most of the lethal aid are exactly the ones we don’t want to have it,” said one American official familiar with the outlines of those findings, commenting on an operation that in American eyes has increasingly gone awry.
The United States is not sending arms directly to the Syrian opposition. Instead, it is providing intelligence and other support for shipments of secondhand light weapons like rifles and grenades into Syria, mainly orchestrated from Saudi Arabia and Qatar. The reports indicate that the shipments organized from Qatar, in particular, are largely going to hard-line Islamists.
The assessment of the arms flows comes at a crucial time for Mr. Obama, in the closing weeks of the election campaign with two debates looming that will focus on his foreign policy record. But it also calls into question the Syria strategy laid out by Mitt Romney, his Republican challenger.
In a speech at the Virginia Military Institute last Monday, Mr. Romney said he would ensure that rebel groups “who share our values” would “obtain the arms they need to defeat Assad’s tanks, helicopters and fighter jets.” That suggests he would approve the transfer of weapons like antiaircraft and antitank systems that are much more potent than any the United States has been willing to put into rebel hands so far, precisely because American officials cannot be certain who will ultimately be using them.
But Mr. Romney stopped short of saying that he would have the United States provide those arms directly, and his aides said he would instead rely on Arab allies to do it. That would leave him, like Mr. Obama, with little direct control over the distribution of the arms.
American officials have been trying to understand why hard-line Islamists have received the lion’s share of the arms shipped to the Syrian opposition through the shadowy pipeline with roots in Qatar, and, to a lesser degree, Saudi Arabia. The officials, voicing frustration, say there is no central clearinghouse for the shipments, and no effective way of vetting the groups that ultimately receive them.
Those problems were central concerns for the director of the Central Intelligence Agency, David H. Petraeus, when he traveled secretly to Turkey last month, officials said.
The C.I.A. has not commented on Mr. Petraeus’s trip, made to a region he knows well from his days as the Army general in charge of Central Command, which is responsible for all American military operations in the Middle East. Officials of countries in the region say that Mr. Petraeus has been deeply involved in trying to steer the supply effort, though American officials dispute that assertion.
One Middle Eastern diplomat who has dealt extensively with the C.I.A. on the issue said that Mr. Petraeus’s goal was to oversee the process of “vetting, and then shaping, an opposition that the U.S. thinks it can work with.” According to American and Arab officials, the C.I.A. has sent officers to Turkey to help direct the aid, but the agency has been hampered by a lack of good intelligence about many rebel figures and factions.
Another Middle Eastern diplomat whose government has supported the Syrian rebels said his country’s political leadership was discouraged by the lack of organization and the ineffectiveness of the disjointed Syrian opposition movement, and had raised its concerns with American officials. The diplomat, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was discussing delicate intelligence issues, said the various rebel groups had failed to assemble a clear military plan, lacked a coherent blueprint for governing Syria afterward if the Assad government fell, and quarreled too often among themselves, undercutting their military and political effectiveness.
“We haven’t seen anyone step up to take a leadership role for what happens after Assad,” the diplomat said. “There’s not much of anything that’s encouraging. We should have lowered our expectations.”
The disorganization is strengthening the hand of Islamic extremist groups in Syria, some with ties or affiliations with Al Qaeda, he said: “The longer this goes on, the more likely those groups will gain strength.”
American officials worry that, should Mr. Assad be ousted, Syria could erupt afterward into a new conflict over control of the country, in which the more hard-line Islamic groups would be the best armed. That depends on what happens in the arms bazaar that has been feeding the rebel groups. In several towns along the Turkey-Syria border, rebel commanders can be found seeking weapons and meeting with shadowy intermediaries, in a chaotic atmosphere where the true identities and affiliations of any party can be extremely difficult to ascertain.
Late last month in the Turkish border town of Antakya, at least two men who had recently been in Syria said they had seen Islamist rebels buying weapons in large quantities and then burying them in caches, to be used after the collapse of the Assad government. But it was impossible to verify these accounts, and other rebels derided the reports as wildly implausible.
Moreover, the rebels often adapt their language and appearance in ways they hope will appeal to those distributing weapons. For instance, many rebels have grown the long, scraggly beards favored by hard-line Salafi Muslims after hearing that Qatar was more inclined to give weapons to Islamists.
The Saudis and Qataris are themselves relying on intermediaries — some of them Lebanese — who have struggled to make sense of the complex affiliations of the rebels they deal with.
“We’re trying to improve the process,” said one Arab official involved in the effort to provide small arms to the rebels. “It is a very complex situation in Syria, but we are learning.”
125 Comments
Think about all the other rebellions or civil wars in the past few decades. What happens when you give even a secular or moderate group of armed insurgents a load of weapons, and then they win and become young, disillusioned individuals who have no prospects for jobs in a collapsed economy but plenty of weapons and extensive military experience? They go fight the next war, any war, real or perceived. Right now, I'm perceiving that Western-friendly countries in the region and Israel seem like good targets. Ironically, Assad might be a vital piece of Israeli national security.
Economics applies too: if we give moderate rebels arms, then the price of weapons on the black market as a whole drops. Well-funded jihadist groups, instead of poor moderate groups, will simply buy more weapons anyways.
Syria is not like Libya. The Syrian civil war is a huge proxy fight between the Gulf States + Turkey, Iran + Russia. Who knows what will happen if and when Assad falls, even if moderate groups somehow win the ensuing civil war against the jihadists. It's unclear if even the moderate groups are or will be pro-American (I doubt it). The entire place is messy and unclear and we should stay as far away from the inevitable explosion as possible.
And while I'm asking, I may as well further inquire if anyone knows where those weapons that have fallen on the hands of the "Jihadists" are coming from. And those who naively say Qatar and Saudi Arabia, I'll answer with a further question: where exactly are they getting those weapons from in turn?
No matter how you slice it, behind every pocket of trouble in the world, there's the hairy hand of the US. Behind every pocket of instability, violence and chaos in the Middle East, there is the hairy hand of the US and the warped paw of Isreal.
Patrick Kennedy / State Dept - watching the Senate Hearing on the Amb Davis' death I noticed his face is the same one from the Underwear Bombing Senate Hearing. He was employed in the State Dept and was one of he people who allowed a known terrorists people (Underwear Bomber) to board a plane headed to the USA for tracking purposes. We've heard that before. Track terrorists my behind!!! If a person is a terrorist you don't let them board anything. This guy is again caught up in a national story. Shouldn't he be ousted from the public sector? This guy is completely reckless and a national security risk.
We already have seen the folly of arming our part time friends. They may become our enemies as soon as it suits them. We armed the Afghan rebels so they could fight the Russians. Those same weapons were then (and are still being) used against us UBL and his AQ friends. The Russians are still mad at us about that.
Why is it no surprise that weapons provided by the Saudis and Qataris are finding their way to the worst of the jihadists? The entire jihadist doctrine comes from our friends in Saudi. Weren't all of the 9/11 hijackers Saudis as well. W did not like to implicate his Saudi friends, but we should get over that.
I have a friend who has traveled to Afghanistan many times over many years. She was shocked when Wahabi-ism caught on there. She totally blamed the Saudis and was horrified about the new Afghan attitude toward women. This was the product of a Saudi elite, UBL, bringing Saudi fundamentalism to them.
The candidate who wants to arm these people is very much wrong. Had he bothered to go to Viet Nam, he might know that you can't kill an idea. Just because the Saudis are rich like him, does not mean we can trust them like W did.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/us-secretly-backed-syrian-opposition...
So why be surprised that such allies aren't reliable? And if you were a Syrian Idealist, why would you trust America to be on the right side, this time? Doesn't history repeat itself?
The US is using these Islamist allies to distribute arms to the so-called rebels in Syria, the large majority of whom are not Syrian, and who therefore must be Islamist fanatics, because no other non-Syrians would have the slightest motivation for entering into such a struggle.
And now US officials are "trying hard to understand" how these arms are getting into the "wrong hands". And just what hands would they expect them to get into? And only now, after twenty months of mass murder, destruction and rapine attributed by the press exclusively to the Assad regime, as if the "rebels" were innocent Boy Scouts and not fanatics bent on persecuting and murdering Christians and all non-Sunni Muslims, especially supporters of the regime, of whom in fact there are a great many (often the case with authoritarian regimes which provide economic security at least to those who are willing to keep their mouths shut), only now, I say, are they getting a glimpse of what is actually going on.
The use of simple logic will tell us that these officials, including the intelligence agencies, the President and the General Staff, are either absolute morons or that that they have been playing a very dirty game all this time and are trying to wriggle out of the situation, the truth of which is becoming ever more widely known. Or that both are true, the most likely conclusion.
Quatar is supposedly an American ally, but it supports jihadis.
May be it would be a better policy for Obama administration to press Quatar and Saudi Arabia to stop their weapons transfers to Syria?
in the atles a Polish general he was in the hungarian uprising revolution led the armies 1849 he went to Aleppo anddied at a atle . hje is a national hero of the polish and the hungarians in the syrian war lost his life as if history repeat itself ..
But posters here call someone else "brutal" ??? Shakespeare could write a soliloquy to this that would make Marc Antony's seem tame. After all, the US Presidents are honorable men, are they not?
Romney/Ryan, McCain and Graham with their usual intemperate reckless fickle idiocy want to rush right in with out a plan or objective or figuring out the consequences including when and how get out of this mess. After the debacles in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan Americans should be wary and humble about our insight and influence.
America's record when intervening in Asian civil wars involving ethnic groups and faiths that America does not understand in any significant sense is poor. Deterimining who are the bad guys and the good guys in Syria is not easy.
America has supported secular and theocratic and royal dictators. Speaking with disapproval of Assad "killing his own people" shows an ignorance of the meaning of civil war and fighting domestic terrorism. Lincoln and Davis killed more Americans than any one. Russia and China rather than behaving despicably have their own values and interests to follow.
Finding American interests and values in this bloody boiling cauldron maelstrom guarantees failure the farther America wanders from it's long term essential values and focuses on it's perceived short term interests. We are not that clever nor knowledgeable.
Syria and Iran are looming black holes. Will we ever learn?
This is the case for you in your perception... but for many other observers and pundits from within Syria, the ME and Muslim world, and across the globe... the determination of who the *armed and fighting* guys are in Syria is clearly and obviously transparent.
They are self-defining jihadists that desire to establish a Syrian state that is part of the Islamic Caliphate, based upon strict Shariah law, where an ancient dogma, the Quran, will be their *Constitution*... which is the agenda of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and Libya... and elsewhere.
blackmamba... especially if you're a woman... relocate to Islamabad or Karachi or even Cairo for a year or two.... and if you're a non-Muslim woman, get back to the NYT commentariat with your account of the racist, xenophobic, and intolerant (and dangerous) situation that you've experienced.
BTW. I'm surprised that you didn't manage to fit in a comment regarding "Jim Crow" in your comment... which you regularly do.
The only answer is to not do anything.
A democratic, modernist, secular, non-ethnocentric Syria is a tall order. We cannot do it by force, persuasion or diplomacy. Supporting Turkey and giving her a free hand may be the least harmful option. But even this may upset the Kurds (only reliable ally in Iraq) and Israel's regional hegemony.
By DAVID E. SANGER
Published: October 14, 2012 125 Comments
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/15/world/middleeast/jihadists-receiving-most-arms-sent-to-syrian-rebels.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0